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Hello guys, in October we voted about leaving wikia. We decided to wait and see how the new skin is. Now that we are familiar with the new wikia skin, I think we should decide whether or not wikia is the right home for us. Here is a summary/outline with all the advantages and disadvantages if we decide to move:
100% FULL CONTROL
We can move over to deadrisingwiki.com. There we will have complete control over EVERYTHING that happens with the wiki. We will also have and almost 10 other skins, including MONACO. You know, the old skin we knew and loved? Yep.
USER RIGHTS
Anno1404 will pay hosting costs and both myself and him will be bureaucrats. All other user rights will remain the same.
POTENTIAL FOR ADVERTISING
We can have the site advertising free, or if the community decides too, we can have ads as little or as much as we want, and all money from ads will 100% will go directly back toward the site. This opens up A LOT of possibilities for our community. Right now, the value of the site is all going to wikia and based on what we have seen, our site is worth thousands of dollars.

Anno is happy to pay for the hosting. Advertising would be nice to offset that cost, but it is not required, it all depends on if the community wants advertising or not. If the community decides on advertising, anything above the server cost will go directly back into the site: faster servers, customized software, etc. We can discuss whether the community wants advertising sometime after the new year.
EXTENSIONS
Wikia extensions are difficult to use outside of wikia, but other alternatives exist for all extensions, some even better than wikia. In addition, we can do so much more on our own site. There are literally thousands of extensions on mediawiki. In the long term, wikia will continue to screw us over with new "features" and more like oasis if we stay on wikia. In the long term when we get up to full stride, this will ultimately be the best way to solve the problems we've had with the wiki. You may also be thinking "this is too good to be true, what are the problems or catches?" and there are a couple problems, those being that we may get some technical difficulties in the beginning, but those can and will be resolved. I have thought this out incredibly thoroughly, and this is the solution I thought was best for the wikis, as well as one that would be relatively easy for you guys to switch to. We can transfer immediately after the vote, if we choose so.
NOTIFICATION ON PAGE
After we are transferred, we can post a main wikia page notice. The staff has allowed a notice in a box on the main page, that links to the discussion to move instead of the site itself.

Well, what does the community think? I for one think that this is honestly the best possible solution. Thanks for reading and considering this. P.png Jax-Kenobi P.png 14:28, December 15, 2010 (UTC)


Response from WikiaEdit

Hey all, wanted to take a minute to reply to this thread and let you know where Wikia stands on some of the issues mentioned by Jax above this part of the thread, partly because we do genuinely care about what happens with this community and want to keep you and also because honestly the above presentation of the issue is very one-sided. Thus, I would like to list out some reasons why we feel (and would like) the community should seriously consider staying on Wikia, for balance and let you all make an informed decision:

  • Wikis cost a lot to host, a lot more than anyone surmises they will. On Wikia, you get the option to not see ads if you are logged in (which I doubt will be an option for a new wiki). Yes, ads are never a favorite of any community, but do seriously consider what you get in return: A very engaged community support team that responds to issues on your site rapidly and earnestly. Wikia staff read our talk page messages on all wikis and if you ever contact us with the Special:Contact link, we aim for a turn around reply time of 24 hours (and we match that 85-90% of the time).
  • Independant wikis move to Wikia once they get big, because they can't afford hosting and the original person paying wanders off or something. While some big wikis have left lately, many have joined Wikia (such as Lyric Wiki or Website Wiki) for this reason
  • The admins of this wiki do have a lot of control, a lot more than you often give yourself credit for. While our Terms of Use do indeed specify some things you can not do, the number of features and extensions we are willing to turn on or off based on community requests are enormous: . We've even scaled back some of the TOU requirements lately, allowing in-article font changes and picture attribution hiding, because we have been actively listening to communities about control. While a new wiki sounds like full control, this will likely limit what your wiki can add in terms of features versus ones you simply want to hide. (Again, most features - such as Category Galleries or Related Pages - can be hidden on a wiki by getting in contact with our staff). We are also working on a "dashboard" of sorts for admins to be able to test new features and opt-out of them that will be out in about a month or so.
  • I think this is one of the best designed wikis out there with a beautiful background. I can't change everyone's opinions about the new skin, but I think it has allowed for some improvements many people ignore when looking at what they feel are the negatives.

So Wikia will and does respect the opinion of this community. If you still think that forking is the right option, then we will be genuinely sad to see you go. I hope the time I have spent merely crafting this reply shows that we are passionate about keeping wikis happy and even though our decisions may not be always popular, we do genuinely care.

Also as a reminder, the community here may continue to operate even if a good part of the community does decide to fork. There are many fans out there that have a passion for Dead Rising and we want to make sure Wikia gives them the best possible wiki on the subject at hand.

Thanks for your time. --daNASCAT@fandom (Help Forum) (blog) 05:41, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

Hi guys, this is User:anno1404. I have watched this discussion from afar with interest, and I planned not to comment at all. But the wikia staff getting involved changed things. I am not going to go into much on whether this is a good or bad thing to move, that is for this community to decide.
The Purges
I want to give you a little background on how much the wikia staff, which owns the future of this site, cares about their veteran editors and the poisonous atmosphere they have created. If you have heard what I am about to say before, I apologize. Wikias are extremely fragmented which makes it difficult for non-staff to communicate, so many of you probably haven't heard all of this.
The largest wikia leaves wikia
Two days before the new oasis skin was coming out, Jimbo Wales stated proudly to a newspaper that "World of Warcraft is probably the biggest (wikia)"[1]
Around this time, almost all of the editors of this biggest Wikia left Wikia, this was despite a desperate staff member giving World of Warcraft exemptions to the skin.[2][3][4] Exceptions which the wikia staff refused to give to anyone else.[5]
The wikia staff then desysopped ten World of Warcraft administrators[6]
daNASCAT's purge
In all at least 38 administrators have been desysopped, at least 10 editors who spoke out about the skin, including me, have been banned.[7]
daNASCAT (the staff member above) himself was involved in one of the wikia purges. He desysoped eight Micronations wikia administrators, quote "Old Admin team has left; clearing way for new team."[8]
Oasis is not the last forced "improvement"
Oasis is not the last "improvement" nor is it the last skin. The "related pages and categories" boxes, introduced on November 30th with the same amount of scorn, is the latest change (although unlike oasis, communities can opt out of this).
Hard but worthwhile transition in the longterm
It is hard going out on your own. I think both Frank/Jax and I will be the first to acknowledge that it will take time to build up the site they way the community wants. I have spent dozens of hours to get the site where it is now, and there is still so much more to do. That said, it is liberating to know that the community I help build will be able to make all the decisions. If we as a community want to change anything, anything: we can.
Here is a comprehensive list of pros and cons of leaving wikia, by one of the ten World of Warcraft desysopped administrators:[9]
Ask one of the 48 veteran editors
I probably will not be able to answer any questions or follow, because I will be indefinitely banned again, you can visit me at AWA though and we can chat or you can email me.
But if you have any doubt at all about how much daNASCAT and the staff care about editors and the will of the community, don't talk to me. Ask one of the 48 veteran editors, including the former admins of the largest wikia, whose wikia contributions total in the hundreds of thousands before all 48 were banned or desysopped, how much the Wikia staff really listened to their community's concerns.
Ask one of those eight admins of Micronations wikia how much daNASCAT cares about their community's opinion.[10]
Best wishes. Worthlesspaul 09:13, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
daNASCAT, while this is a nice reply and you seem like you care for us, do any of the staff honestly care about the users? The actions you guys have taken have proved to us that you really don't, it's all about you guys getting money. I completely agree with what Anno (now Worthlesspaul) is saying. P.png Jax-Kenobi P.png 14:29, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
They are not interested in keeping us, they'd rather keep us so they don't have an abandoned wiki that they are just using for ads. Everything daNASCAT said is crap. WorldOfWarcraft wiki is the largest, so they offer them the old skin, as sort of a desperate bribe to keep the people that run it. And then they block the guys. And then block a load of other people for complaining about their disregard. They don't care about the users, they care about the money. NT92 15:08, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

Hello all, I'd like to clear up some points from WorthlessPaul/Anno1404’s post above - I feel it's a pretty one-sided view and would like to let you all know what Wikia’s position is on some of the issues he brought up.

First off, Anno1404 is banned from Wikia for spamming to advertise another site. He mass posted messages on various wikis, and later misused Wikia email to send mass spam to a large number of users. We want people to have their say (that’s why most of his posts on Wikia are still up) and we recognize and sympathize with those who feel angry over the skin change. But that spam was unacceptable. Now, I do want to respect Anno1404’s post on this wiki and I know banning his new account may make you feel as though we are shutting him up, but he is bypassing a ban and so I'm going to re-ban him under this new account.

On the rest: yes, some admins have lost rights from wikis they have left. We prefer not to remove rights, and have tried to keep that to a minimum. Each situation is different - for example, there were mass deletions and other vandalism on Micronations that triggered the de-admining. On WoWWiki, the problem was more about promotion of the new wiki, and admins leaving but not letting the wiki they had left go it's own way -- they wanted to leave and control the wiki they left.

But that's about issues on other wikis. What's important here is the choice for this wiki.

A couple of people have said that Wikia cares only for money and not for users. Well it's certainly true that Wikia is a business. But that's not incompatible with caring for our users. Without you, Wikia wouldn't be here and will have no chance of becoming a long-term success... so of course we care about you and this wiki. And Wikia’s Community Support staff aren't at Wikia because we have degrees in public relations. We aren't here because we’re sales experts. Each member of our team was hired because WE LOVE WIKIS and came to Wikia because we genuinely believe in the mission of our company. It takes passionate editors to understand passionate editors.

Wikia provides hosting, technical and community support, unlimited space and bandwidth, and the safety of a host that won't suddenly be unable to afford to keep the site up. And we do this for free, because you build the sites that make Wikia great.

So, where you edit is your choice of course, but please don't go thinking Wikia does not want you or care about this community. And I hope you'll choose to stay on this wiki. --daNASCAT@fandom (Help Forum) (blog) 07:10, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

"Wikia wouldn't be here and will have no chance of becoming a long-term success... so of course we care about you and this wiki." Yeah, you care about making money off us. The whole point of the new skin was to get more ad revenue, and when people complained did you guys listen? NO. THOUSANDS of people vocally criticized the new look, but you guys ignored it and handed out stock automated responses. When the skin was first arriving I made a test comment, insulting the staff rather heavily. The staff responded for THIS REASON ALONE. They only responded to people saying that they liked it, people insulting the staff themselves, and bug reports. All else was ignored completely. Does this really show that the staff care about us other than their moneymakers? If you guys really WERE passionate about wikis then you would understand why we didn't want the new skin. Paul/Anno's block wasn't really justified, he was just informing wikis of something that they had supposedly posted. P.png Jax-Kenobi P.png 13:16, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

UPDATE
Hello! Thought I'd share with everyone that the transfer of images and text to deadrisingwiki.com is almost done as notified by Anno1404:

All images are uploaded, and the database dump is uploaded to December 5th. Currently I am uploading up to today.
I have been blocked for the third time from wikia. Can you relay to everyone that everything is updated here? Thank you. Anno1404 02:01, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

We are almost done and soon can be back to pre-Oasis style of wiki-ing! --Mistertrouble189 02:50, December 20, 2010 (UTC) (see original post)

VotingEdit

Stay on wikiaEdit

  • Shouldn't we just stay here? You boys can move on. I'm staying here, all by my lonesome, evidently. Le Rusecue 00:21, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

Move to deadrisingwiki.comEdit

  • I vote for this. It's the best way to solve the problems we're having. P.png Jax-Kenobi P.png 14:28, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm going to say we can move. Wikia doesn't like to listen to its users' concerns. This site can be kept and whatever, but we should have a wiki that doesn't limit or restrict what we want to do/what works best for the wiki. Plus, the two wikis would now be in an alliance and can contribute a lot to the wiki. --Mistertrouble189 17:14, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • Hell to the yeah. I'm tired of the old idiotic wikia skin, now I can fully edit without worrying about my edit loss so expect alot of good edits from me. ;) DynasticAnthony 18:02, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • Sounds like a great idea actually. If we do decide to move, we should have moderate ads, nothing too over the top but enough to make it so Anno doesn't have it too hard on his wallet. it's also great that the 2 wikis would join together, we can combine the great parts of both to make one awesome wiki. Sumtaedium 21:29, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm all for moving, as long as Anno doesn't lose all his money with this. Reversinator 23:01, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
    • Sum and Reversinator, me and Anno have talked, the funding is no problem, especially with ads. P.png Jax-Kenobi P.png 23:15, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • Yes. Oasis has put me off editing here. MagcargoMan 01:43, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
  • I'm gonna say that moving the better idea, for most of the reasons that others have already listed. Plasma Platypus 05:52, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
  • It'll be sad to abandon this place after all the work we've put into it, but the current layout it incredibly bothersome. It, along with being kinda busy, are the two reasons I retired in the first place (yep.. the skin is that irritating). It'll be nice to move to a site where I can actually see what I'm working on. - Ash Crimson 23:37, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
  • I feel that we should move. I believe that if we move, we will promote activity on the wiki, moving will allow for people who were used to the Monaco skin to edit more often on the wiki with better results than the current skin, but as long as the financial concern is taken care of, I agree to moving the wiki then. Doucetth 23:57, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
  • I knew this website at wikia, and I think that it is actually great, but I believe that it´s known enough to move it and has got a lot of content to show the world. Anyway please be careful of the host where we will move because it has gotta be stable, I mean, I don´t want to move to a site that will crash once per month. So if you developers think that we are ready, then why not?, you´ve got my support :) ... Chester1994 02:24, December 17, 2010 (UTC)
  • Are we gonna have to start from scratch, with templates, pages, etc? That'll be a lot of work...plus, will rollback editors still have the position? And will I have to get to 2000 edits from scratch to get upgraded or will the edits be saved? Any ways, you got my support ^_^ CrackLawliet 18:00, December 18, 2010 (UTC)
  • I think we should move. I'd say something, but I think everything's already been said. :) P.E.A.C.H 19:06, December 18, 2010 (UTC)
  • That we can move? Sure thing, i dont want us self to be controlled by an other wikia. Alta1r 07:46, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

QuestionsEdit

Questions or concerns go here, and I will answer them.

  • I don't get get the costing fees part or the money going back to wikia. I didn't think it costed to make wiki's. NT92 14:55, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
    • When people view our site, and see ads, wikia gets money for it. We have many visitors here, so wikia is making money off of us. We didn't pay for anything, but wikia is getting money when we work for free. The new site will cost a monthly fee that Anno1404 has agreed to pay, and if we have ads on the site all the money from ads will go back into the new site. P.png Jax-Kenobi P.png 15:10, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • Where did you get "...our site is worth thousands of dollars" from? As much as I think this site is a great Dead Rising resource, I thought internet advertising barely made any revenue (let alone profits) on anything but very large scale sites - am I horribly misled; barking up the wrong tree; or both? (And sorry for killing the formatting! I tried to put it back cleanly, I really did!) — OtherworldBob 20:20, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
  • Since it's not hosted by wikia, does that mean I have to do stuff all over again (like making an account, my blogs, edit count, etc.)? MagcargoMan 01:44, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
    • Nope, since it's a data transfer and not starting new, you have your edits, contributions, account, pages, all that stuff. We don't have blogs there, but that can be solved by converting blogs into user page extensions and putting a comment section. P.png Jax-Kenobi P.png 01:47, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
  • So wait. Are u saying that if we move to deadrisingwiki.com (which by the way is a bit of a messed up site, nothing compared to this one) you and Anon will have to keep the site going? Who will you pay? And how will money go back into the site with ads, like who will give the money that goes back into the site. NT92 03:14, December 16, 2010 (UTC) 03:13, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
    • For one, it's a messed up site because the Monaco skin is still being fixed and worked on. By the end of the week everything should be up and running, our pages too. Anno has happily agreed to pay for the hosting, as stated above. And 100% of the money from ads (if we choose to have them) goes back into the site. P.png Jax-Kenobi P.png 03:22, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
  • Who is currently paying for it. And who are they paying? Because its not part of Wikia. (One thing, if we do move, all the info on that site needs to be completely deleted and replaced with this) NT92 03:41, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
    • Anno1404 is paying for the site. For the info thing, no that doesn't happen. We just take a database dump from Special:Statistics and transfer it all over to the new site in one movement. I'll get back to you on who he's paying, it's just a bill for owning a website so I don't know the details. P.png Jax-Kenobi P.png 14:26, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
  • So Anno will pay for the servers, and if ads are allowed on the site, those ad companies will pay Anno, which he will then in turn pay the hosting bill with. NT92 15:11, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
    • Yes. Any extra money from ads that ISN'T used for covering the monthly cost will go into the site and be used on what the community decides to use it on, or save it. And this is if we decide to have ads, which we will vote on after everything is fully up and running. P.png Jax-Kenobi P.png 15:19, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
  • Thankfully, we will have monaco back with us and no more stupid wikia shit like Oasis aka Shitskin 2.0. I think DRWiki will have a better future on .com. Hopefully Anno gets paid by the ads and we will live longer because oasis is preventing me from editing a little, like on a lot of users too. When we move, I'll be hella active and edit and contribute more. DynasticAnthony 15:26, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
  • And what about this site? I'd imagine wikia would keep it open for ads, but what if it all fails at the other DRWiki. Some other wiki's i've used have been abandoned by the admins and they have moved to their own site, but the old ones are still going. NT92 15:49, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
    • If we decide on ads, there will be enough revenue from the site that we can keep it going as long as the community desires. I will have access to all of the files, database, ad revenue, and information that Anno has. In the future, we can set up a database dump like Special:Statistics so that several editors can get regular backups of the site whenever they choose. If worse comes to worse an editor can always import all the wiki's data to any site they choose, including shoutwiki. This site will remain as a backup for us, but will for all intensive purposes, be abandoned. P.png Jax-Kenobi P.png 21:08, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
      • So if Anno's paying for the new site I assume I won't be welcome. =\ Also, I know I retired, but it's kind of a bummer no one bothered to tell me about any of this. If you're all happy moving to another wiki, that's cool. If I'm welcome, I'll help out. - Ash Crimson 23:29, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
        • Of course you're welcome there, Ash. Anno has gotten past all the bad stuff that went down months ago. The forum only went up a couple days ago, I just hadn't gotten around to telling you yet. I put up a community message thingy for it. P.png Jax-Kenobi P.png 00:25, December 17, 2010 (UTC)
  • Couple of quick questions, actually... If we move, we'll import everything over so the entirety of the current wiki's articles, including users and histories and whatnot, will be moved over, right? Will we be integrating with the dead-rising wikia if we go through with the move? What about the traffic; would it be possible to have some sort of redirect from the wikia site to the new domain? --Ciwey 05:45, December 18, 2010 (UTC)
    • First question: Yes. Second question: Yes. We will decide on templates and whatnot when everything is set up. Third question: Kinda. wikia allows us to put a box on the main page HERE that says "Looking for the other wiki?" And it'll link to this post. P.png Jax-Kenobi P.png 15:03, December 18, 2010 (UTC)
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